Wow, I don’t usually find myself on this side of the argument, but…
Did you even read what he said?
In a republic, which we are, people have to agree on policy and their representatives vote for what the people who elect them want.
The Overton Window dictates what we can feasibly pass with popularity within a system like ours. Like it or not, the majority of voters’ opinions fall within this window, and by definition, what is acceptable for our politicians to run on falls within this window. Also, the Overton window of the US has been shifting right so that actual leftist policies are outside of that window (see how little it takes for someone here to cry about how socialism is ruining everything)
Raising the minimum wage is just inside the left border of the Overton window right now. It’s acceptable to talk about and most people with a clear understanding of how poverty works agree that it’s a viable solution to remedy one of our nation’s biggest problems.
You know it’s inside of the window because various states have actually passed those changes. It’s acceptable to talk about that happening on a national scale when we can see it work on a state scale.
UBI is so far left of our Overton window that it isn’t implemented anywhere here (in the mainland) and can be ridiculed easily, and that’s the point.
I’d like to expand my point for anyone who is interested in further reading, to address the “Capitalism vs UBI” point that the person I responded to was making:
You can’t just replace capitalism. It’s not a good system, we can all agree on that. But short of violent revolution, no system is changed except from within the system.
You can’t just say “well the alternative to UBI is just letting people suffer under capitalism” because there is no alternative to capitalism right now. Not unless we as a group of leftists work the overton window back far enough left for the masses to seriously consider abandoning capitalism in favor of something that benefits everyone.
The problem is, capitalists have known about that possibility for about 50 years and have had that much of a head start undermining any effort to do so.
It can be done, but it has to be done in smaller steps like legalizing weed, cementing abortion rights, raising the minimum wage, etc. until the masses are ready to hear that UBI might actually be a good thing.
Statements like “If UBI isn’t implemented then people will just suffer under capitalism” are virtue signaling at best and the people who say those kinds of things don’t have a clear understanding of how to actually affect change.
I like the downvotes I’ve got. What I said was objective truth. Like it or not, change doesn’t happen here unless enough people are behind it to make it happen.
So those downvotes just… Don’t like it? It’s like the guy in the scroll of truth meme yelling myehh at the end
I can tell you just grabbed the first result of a Google search “why basic income works” because you linked an article with a pay wall that doesn’t actually allow you to read it, leading me to believe you didn’t read it either. So thanks.
However, just the title and first paragraph I was able to skim highlight the point I’m making: it doesn’t matter if a system works if not enough people are willing to adopt it. Which is what the concept of the overton window is built on.
I’m not going to unfuck your source because you’re too lazy to check it. The skill issue is yours, my friend
Despite the minimal effort I put in, I still managed a rebuttal. Where’s yours? Oh right, you aren’t interested in actually understanding the problem. You just Google a response without checking it and let other people affirm your flawed views.
Actually, before I leave you to congratulate yourself on not actually saying anything, I just want to point out how funny it is that you mic dropped an article that makes the same point I did by mistake because you didn’t read it. And now you’re trying to flex on me because you still haven’t read it.
I’m just happy I could be part of this exchange. It’s not often that someone I argue with proves themselves wrong with the very first and only point they make, and then doubles down so hard that they’re just sending emojis.
![[Alzwards Corner] Never could happen here](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f554a50e-b397-4ea1-9cab-40fd25d3dcb5.png){kind=link}
Wow, I don’t usually find myself on this side of the argument, but…
Did you even read what he said?
In a republic, which we are, people have to agree on policy and their representatives vote for what the people who elect them want.
The Overton Window dictates what we can feasibly pass with popularity within a system like ours. Like it or not, the majority of voters’ opinions fall within this window, and by definition, what is acceptable for our politicians to run on falls within this window. Also, the Overton window of the US has been shifting right so that actual leftist policies are outside of that window (see how little it takes for someone here to cry about how socialism is ruining everything)
Raising the minimum wage is just inside the left border of the Overton window right now. It’s acceptable to talk about and most people with a clear understanding of how poverty works agree that it’s a viable solution to remedy one of our nation’s biggest problems.
You know it’s inside of the window because various states have actually passed those changes. It’s acceptable to talk about that happening on a national scale when we can see it work on a state scale.
UBI is so far left of our Overton window that it isn’t implemented anywhere here (in the mainland) and can be ridiculed easily, and that’s the point.
I’d like to expand my point for anyone who is interested in further reading, to address the “Capitalism vs UBI” point that the person I responded to was making:
You can’t just replace capitalism. It’s not a good system, we can all agree on that. But short of violent revolution, no system is changed except from within the system.
You can’t just say “well the alternative to UBI is just letting people suffer under capitalism” because there is no alternative to capitalism right now. Not unless we as a group of leftists work the overton window back far enough left for the masses to seriously consider abandoning capitalism in favor of something that benefits everyone.
The problem is, capitalists have known about that possibility for about 50 years and have had that much of a head start undermining any effort to do so.
It can be done, but it has to be done in smaller steps like legalizing weed, cementing abortion rights, raising the minimum wage, etc. until the masses are ready to hear that UBI might actually be a good thing.
Statements like “If UBI isn’t implemented then people will just suffer under capitalism” are virtue signaling at best and the people who say those kinds of things don’t have a clear understanding of how to actually affect change.
Louder for the people in the back.
I like the downvotes I’ve got. What I said was objective truth. Like it or not, change doesn’t happen here unless enough people are behind it to make it happen.
So those downvotes just… Don’t like it? It’s like the guy in the scroll of truth meme yelling myehh at the end
https://www.washingtonpost.com/magazine/2022/10/24/universal-basic-income/
I can tell you just grabbed the first result of a Google search “why basic income works” because you linked an article with a pay wall that doesn’t actually allow you to read it, leading me to believe you didn’t read it either. So thanks.
However, just the title and first paragraph I was able to skim highlight the point I’m making: it doesn’t matter if a system works if not enough people are willing to adopt it. Which is what the concept of the overton window is built on.
Lul, skill issues, unsurprising
I’m not going to unfuck your source because you’re too lazy to check it. The skill issue is yours, my friend
Despite the minimal effort I put in, I still managed a rebuttal. Where’s yours? Oh right, you aren’t interested in actually understanding the problem. You just Google a response without checking it and let other people affirm your flawed views.
🤡
That’s what I thought
🤣
Actually, before I leave you to congratulate yourself on not actually saying anything, I just want to point out how funny it is that you mic dropped an article that makes the same point I did by mistake because you didn’t read it. And now you’re trying to flex on me because you still haven’t read it.
I’m just happy I could be part of this exchange. It’s not often that someone I argue with proves themselves wrong with the very first and only point they make, and then doubles down so hard that they’re just sending emojis.
Thanks for that. Later