Just putting this here cause I found it a good overview of a pretty confusing situation I had no prior knowledge about
Why does everything have to be a video these days ffs. What’s the tl;dr?
Cast:
- Vaxry: Hypr, Hyprland creator, contributes to wlroots and Freedesktop
- Lyude: member of X.org board, Freedesktop.org, Red Hat employee
- Drew DeVault: Sway and Hare creator, self-proclaimed Zig hater
- FDO: FreeDesktop Organisation(?)
Warning: Not lore accurate
TL:DR;
Vaxry’s Discord server for Hyprland was filled with edgy kids, calling each other LGBTQ+ related slurs - maybe they were from the community themselves, maybe it was a boy’s locker room. It was toxic.
From what Vaxry said, a trans user was misgendering his mod staff, so their pronoun was changed to “who/cares”. That was two years ago. Drew DeVault wrote a blog about it, Vaxry was pissed, shit happened. They discuss but could not come to an agreement; however there were a few changes. Vaxry apologized later about the incident, but he was not in agreement with political correctness.
Vaxry’s policy according to him is that he does not discriminate PR on the basis of people. He also created a CoC (mentioned earlier), but not many were happy about it being vague. But then, he also made a blog against inclusivity in FOSS, and calls them SJWs as a pejorative.
Vaxry lost his marbles when he got a mail from Lyude. Lyude used a Redhat mail, which was seen as unprofessional, and tried enforcing FDO’s CoC on Hyprland and other related project.
He sent back a passive-aggressive mail, which said “fuck off” in short. He also share Lyude’s toots in the blog about how Lyude supports bullying people for missing T in LGB, as a justification that Lyude tried bringing their past unnecessarily. Lyude sent another mail. Vaxry said that they don’t care, basically another formal “fuck off”. Finally, FDO yeeted Vaxry.
That’s it. Maybe I’ve missed a few details here and there. I did not read other’s blog, but Vaxrys’. And it isn’t looking good. In a way, this is also the abuse of power by Lyude, but looking at Vaxrys’ indifference, yeah, I wouldn’t have a positive attitude about that.
Source:
- How Freedesktop/RedHat harass other projects into submission
- Freedesktop/RedHat’s CoC team is worse than you thought
- Inclusive community activists are harming FOSS
Extras:
Edit: After watching Nico’s video, I’m convinced that Vaxry is a living, breathing turd. He crossed every limit. Good on him for getting banned.
I’m looking forward to when the Linux community, and society at large, has forgotten about noninclusive Transphobic assholes like this fuck.
I honestly don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet and proves you’re the smartest human to ever live. If Vaxry can’t understand why being sympathetic to the LGBTQ+ community by adhering to their conventions around identifying pronouns is a good thing, then he’s simply chosen to align himself with those who don’t care, i.e. Transphobic hate groups.
That’s the company he keeps now, and it might as well be who he is.
don’t care if the work you’ve done saves the planet
It’s not even that in this case. It’s a Wayland compositor not the cure for cancer. You have to be very socially tone-deaf to imagine people will overlook you being an asshole because of that. You have to be a billionaire for that to happen.
I agree, I’m just not one of those people. I’m personally very unforgiving of Nazis, Trump supporters, White Nationalists, homophobes, and transphobes, etc. etc. All the lefty wokisms right wing assholes like to dunk on you can apply to me (I don’t care, come at me bro).
And when people say, why use their products then? Like this whole boycotting of Hyprland shit. No, use Hyprland, AND make such a big deal about it on their discord server that the toxic community is shouted down. Is told THEY are not welcome. And if you lose, then you straight up call them a Transphobic right wing community. That’s what they will have become at that point. That is who they will have proven themselves to be should they be willing to turn a blind eye to hateful rhetoric.
Ignoring hate speech is endorsing hate speech. I invite anyone to prove me wrong.
I agree but what I find weird is the fact that they treat humans like this. I mean I get missgendering or refusing to call someone by their pronouns but dehumanising someone for who they are is fucked up.
Misgendering someone by mistake is just a misunderstanding. Misgendering someone on purpose is a form of hate speech or at best, willful ignorance. It is a not so subtle way of dehumanizing them in not recognizing them as who they are.
Why would it be hate speech? I’m not doing it because I hate anyone, I just don’t have enough fucks in the bag. I don’t mean it’s a subtle way of dehumanising, I mean that what they do calling people slurs and telling them to kill themselves etc etc is fucked up.
Why would it be hate speech? I’m not doing it because I hate anyone, I just don’t have enough fucks in the bag.
You’re unwillingness to do the bare minimum of simply addressing someone by their preferred pronouns means you’re either okay with misgendering people or you intentionally want to.
If, however you mean what you say in that you don’t intend to dehumanize those who wish to be called by their preferred pronouns, then I highly suggest you find those fucks and give them.
The fact that we live in a society, where someone feels the urge to tell me how to gender them, and expects me to do so, is just absurd.
How silly would it be if I were to tell everyone I meet to call me “your Highness” or else I’d be pissed and throw a tantrum.
So basically a cancerous organization meets a toxic community?
Awesome entertainment for hours!
*grabs popcorn*
TLDW: read all the blog posts, all the discussions and make your own opinion. I lost 15 minutes of my life and didn’t become any more informed or smarter.
I did a quick search but only found a deleted reddit post lol.
Its a video sharing his opinion on the topic. If you just wanted to know what happened he linked all of the articles…
Damn, I had no idea what a shithole the hyprland community was :c
I quite like the feel of the WM, but it seems like I’ll be moving on
It’s sad cuz the soft is good tho But I’ll be moving from it as well
and it’s too niche to have a reasonable chance of creating an active fork. but the stuff happening in their community is simply vile, and as a queer person I won’t feel comfortable to use software developed by open bigots
Same
Yet you use Javascript if you use a web browser. People need to separate personal life from the work or professional one.
Yeah, I think I might also switch from Hyprland to something like SwayFX or Plasma 6 (with Polonium for tiling, I heard it’s gotten better).
edit: welp, the background is black, system settings crashes and i have searched and searched for what this issue could be but i’m too lazy to make an actual support ticket so i’m complaining on lemmy instead.
thankfully i made a separate git branch in my config for plasma, i’ll use hyprland until i figure out how to get plasma to work properly. then i’ll configure it, if i don’t like plasma i might go back to swayfx as i said previously in my comment.
It’s a shame, I really enjoyed the look and feel of it
Thanks for pointing out SwayFX though, that looks pretty good! I hadn’t heard of it before
Wow is it this hard to not be an asshole
I absolutely love Hyprland but have no respect for Vaxry beyond his coding ability.
I really hope someone starts a good fork of it, I haven’t found another wm I like as much but I hate to be seen as supporting that awful person.
It’s FOSS, just don’t donate to the project or promote it and keep using it anyway. That’s the beauty of FOSS, the devs dumb opinions shouldn’t effect your personal use of quality tools. Imagine if you stopped using hammers just because “communism”, it’d be a pretty stupid self inflicted inconvenience.
If the project itself goes to shit and he starts using it to push his stupid agenda, then abandon it. But until then it’s completely understandable to keep using it for your personal workflow. Everyone uses GNU utilits, that doesn’t mean we agree with everything Richard Stallmen has ever said.
Hopefully Vaxry will learn and clean up his act.
nicco loves linux also apparently made a good video, I just saw this one first
Does this have any impact on the future viability of Hyprland as a project? Should it affect (on a technical level) whether users should start using Hyprland if they don’t already?
I literally installed it for the first time yesterday to take a look, but don’t want to get invested in something that may fizzle out…
Hyprland itself will still continue to work just fine. What it does affect is Hyprland’s ability to propose changes to FreeDesktop specifications like Wayland. Although I think only the lead dev Vaxry has been banned so potentially they could just get some other dev to do that instead.
I have seen people describing the code base to be ugly. However, the project itself looks like it will sustain. But don’t go to their discord server for support if you belong to any sort of minority group.
It is so stupid… Why make drama instead of making linux better as a whole. A sad thing to see in general.
American culture warriors have decided that their ideology is more important - you see this a lot where their ideology’s goal becomes the “greater cause” worth sacrificing the mission: e.g. in journalism.
Oh those dang culture warriors, amiright. *shakes fist*
Unlike say you, who would never post an article about how NPR isn’t right-wing enough (lol) on a Linux forum.
I sorta agree, but the “greater cause” doesn’t exist.
Totally agree. Started with the Me-Too movement where we saw people accused and convicted without due process. It seemed to spin out of the Jian Gnomeshi acquittal.
It always baffles me why some people can’t just fucking live and let live. If someone doesn’t appreciate your “joke”, then it should be a very clear indicator that you need to STFU, otherwise, it’s obvious you’re a dickhead.
Yeah, whatever. If you don’t like the community, you leave it. Or make your own unofficial community with blackjack and hookers. As simple as that.
That’s a very low effort way of underplaying the effect of these communities on the broader FOSS communities. There is a good reason why most FOSS developers/maintainers prefer to keep their personal and unrelated politics away from their project communities. For one, unchecked bigotry in isolated communities can turn bad for the general public - for example, 4chan, kiwifarms, etc. I have heard from more than one source that community engages in hate speech and brigading against people outside the communtiy - one example is visible in this video itself. This is why laws specifying limitation to free speech exists.
Now, even if you neglect the brigading, there is still the problem of support and contribution. Hyprland is a widely used project. Many end users and developers are going to stumble into the discord server either seeking support or with intent to contribute. If they belong to any minority group, they might inadvertently expose themselves to bigotry, bullying and harassment. Now you may be compelled to label this as hyperbole and fearmongering. But this is well known, highly underplayed problem in FOSS communities with numerous examples. There are so many cases where women stopped FOSS contributions because they felt insulted and harassed. This problem is why CoCs exist in the first place.
Nobody can force others to follow CoCs. But as Brodie says, it has become very important for end users to evaluate the projects they use - to see if it is a community they want to ever interact with. Similarly, distros need to decide if they want to expose their users to such a community.
But it was the blackjack and hookers that got us into this in the first place.
Alright who is in the Discord and can tell us if it’s actually 4chan or not
4Chan is obv worse, as was said in the video, but the discord can be pretty obnoxious. Just a lot of humor you’d expect from the average middle-schooler.
I’ve been there for like 2 weeks in 2023 and I’d say that 4chan is way worse
I am and I got muted for 6 hours for gif reacting when the gif had the soft n word in it.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/watch?v=Lm3gLwyjawQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
why do we need to drop hyprland over the lead dev’s views, they are pretty bad, but its an open source project, and I joined the discord server and didn’t immediately see any issues. vaxry even made a point of saying that they will accept PRs as long as they are good quality, regardless of personal views.
Who is that guy and why would he have the authority to demand a talk? From the looks of the thumbnail alone he seems to be super full of himself.
“we need to talk” is just a phrase, he’s not demanding from anyone
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