• 3 Posts
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Joined 1 year ago
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Cake day: June 30th, 2023

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  • So what I’ll leave with here is to clarify about public opinion:

    You said I should ask high risk workers and minorities what they think about cops. I’m saying you can ask a lot of people what they think about anything and you’re inclined to get a broad range of answers that are more or less extreme.

    And also about people:

    2016 and onward have made it pretty clear there is a plurality of perspectives that may all be toxic to a greater or lesser extent. This isn’t just an artifact of the state: people disagree and sometimes in severe ways regardless of community size. It’s not bad faith to say that if families can ostracize individuals and neighbor can turn against neighbor that adding a council and consensus doesn’t make that go away. 60% vs 40% can still have nasty outcomes in conflict.


  • I suppose we will have to use our sets of anecdotal evidence and agree to disagree.

    I can’t argue that police reform is unnecessary because it is. Despite that face I don’t think you can say that police aren’t also making DUI arrests, responding to neighborhood disturbances, providing safety and first response for incidents on the road, and other non-state enforcing sorts of issues. Public perspective is important, but I think the ACAB crowd would also be inclined to tell you that anarchists are fundamentally dangerous, animal rights protesters are disruptive and misguided, and a bunch of other stuff that is “valid opinion” but is hardly accurate or well considered.

    I would contend that ANY policing or militia unit will eventually come to be an enforcer of private “property relations” to a greater or lesser extent for any society that permits the accumulation of wealth or value, but that’s not the fault of the rule enforcing groups. Someone has to keep the peace. (Maybe here’s your whole political point idk).

    The last thing I’ll say is

    Not if the militia is delegated by the community. The community wont order its’ militia by consensus to beat up part of the community.

    This is bogus. Little towns in middle America do exactly this. Progressivism vs conservativism here near the birthplace of the KKK is not a quiet and harmonious affair as signs, graffiti, and even open displays of aggression show. People are nasty and people are good, but there are both types for sure.

    I don’t think any of your principles in this thread are wrong per se, but I’m not seeing how they scale beyond a small town.


  • Are you highlighting the “ought” because it isn’t mandatory to comply?

    Maybe the difference is that you think a policing force makes their own rules or decisions because of the nature of the hierarchy? It sounds like a variant of “who polices the police” and that the answer is the police can never outnumber or overpower the full community from which they are derived. Which I mean yeah I guess that’s fine.

    I personally don’t see the enforcement hierarchy (police or militia) as having power over anyone outside the granted scope of enforcement. That’s bordering on the discussion of police misconduct and government that is too large, which are valid concerns but not really the core issues.


  • I guess I don’t understand how hierarchy and community are mutually exclusive especially if hierarchy is granted by and from the community itself.

    If this isn’t the case, why respect family hierarchy either? At 16 if I’m bigger than my dad, fuck him it’s my house now. Basically the only point of removing all hierarchy I can see is that we pass the “violence” part down to everyone instead of deciding to isolate it in the enforcement group.


  • While that part is much televised, I can’t say that I’ve ever seen an officer do any of that. I HAVE seen police perform a core function of keeping the peace between individuals on more then one occasion.

    Sure, any instance of that is a problem, but besides stopping strikes these all seem like things your neighborhood “us vs them” group might do. Or, in the case of eviction, just the regular members of the community. Admittedly, in the eviction case though that’s only for delinquency in “rent to own” probably.

    Point being, by and large community policing is a standard function of society and I think it’s the standard function of police EXCEPT perhaps in large metros where police are enforcers outside their own neighborhoods.









  • I don’t think anyone is arguing that a tray of soup is a well balanced and nutritionally sound meal, but these aren’t the metrics we use to evaluate “food crimes” around here either. There’s not enough context from one image of one meal to draw conclusions about the state of affairs of food in the prison system at large.

    I mean, I doubt it’s very good considering what cafeteria food was like in school, but this isn’t enough info to warrant sharpening a pitch fork.